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	<title>Comments on: All aboard the Gravy Train</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/</link>
	<description>Political Musings from Greater Manchester</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22064</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22064</guid>
		<description>To answer your question: no.

As an aside - your turn of phrase is interesting:&quot;Would the Lib Dems, and your Tory partners from so many councils...&quot;. This rather conveniently for you pushes a message that the Lib Dems and Tories are alike and often co-operate on councils, unlike Labour! However, as we both know the Labour and the Tories are and have been in coalition on many councils, just as Labour and the Lib Dems have been in coalition on others. Given the current state of affairs in the Labour party and the number of privileged MPs, Lords and donors in the party you&#039;re shaky ground with your implication. And just so you know, I consider myself and my party a very, very long way from capable of being described as partners to the Tories (Nu Labour on the other hand seems much closer to Tory&#039;ism).

Labour could go a long way towards making the council more accessible to those not independently wealthy by changing the times of their meetings to make them easier to attend by those of us with jobs. Sadly they&#039;ve refused time and time again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer your question: no.</p>
<p>As an aside &#8211; your turn of phrase is interesting:&#8221;Would the Lib Dems, and your Tory partners from so many councils&#8230;&#8221;. This rather conveniently for you pushes a message that the Lib Dems and Tories are alike and often co-operate on councils, unlike Labour! However, as we both know the Labour and the Tories are and have been in coalition on many councils, just as Labour and the Lib Dems have been in coalition on others. Given the current state of affairs in the Labour party and the number of privileged MPs, Lords and donors in the party you&#8217;re shaky ground with your implication. And just so you know, I consider myself and my party a very, very long way from capable of being described as partners to the Tories (Nu Labour on the other hand seems much closer to Tory&#8217;ism).</p>
<p>Labour could go a long way towards making the council more accessible to those not independently wealthy by changing the times of their meetings to make them easier to attend by those of us with jobs. Sadly they&#8217;ve refused time and time again.</p>
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		<title>By: Miles</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22063</link>
		<dc:creator>Miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22063</guid>
		<description>Cookey

Good work for providing the voters with information they have a right to see.
The average &quot;pay&quot; of a Labour councillor is £17,777.
A bit less then a trainee manager in McDonalds.
Would the Lib Dems, and your Tory partners from so many councils, like a system where only the independently wealthy can afford to be councillors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cookey</p>
<p>Good work for providing the voters with information they have a right to see.<br />
The average &#8220;pay&#8221; of a Labour councillor is £17,777.<br />
A bit less then a trainee manager in McDonalds.<br />
Would the Lib Dems, and your Tory partners from so many councils, like a system where only the independently wealthy can afford to be councillors?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22062</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22062</guid>
		<description>Three points Paul:

1. &quot;Presumably the Executive Support Members (ESMs) in Salford have similar demanding roles to (paid) deputy chairs/cabinet members in other authorities?&quot;

Presumably indeed - nobody knows, and in fact we have no evidence that they do anything whatsoever above and beyond what the back-benchers do.

2. &quot;even though he feels hard done by with 34% less in allowances&quot;.

For the record - I do not feel remotely hard done by with my allowance. I think it more than enough for the role of a councillor without additional duties. In fact I was the only councillor who spoke out against massive rises in councillor salaries (39% for some compared with 2.9% for admin staff at the council) a couple of years ago. I gave the difference between my salary rise and that of the rise given to staff to Salford Women&#039;s Aid.

http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/507514_merry_christmas_for_council_leader_john_whos_just_been_given_a_141_pay_rise

3. I know nothing of the Bristol Lib Dems - I don&#039;t spend my time investigating the practices of every council in Britain. Additionally, I know you hate John Leech and his colleagues (that&#039;s hate rather than oppose), but assertion is not the same as evidence and I take any of the bile you spout about him with a mountain of salt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three points Paul:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;Presumably the Executive Support Members (ESMs) in Salford have similar demanding roles to (paid) deputy chairs/cabinet members in other authorities?&#8221;</p>
<p>Presumably indeed &#8211; nobody knows, and in fact we have no evidence that they do anything whatsoever above and beyond what the back-benchers do.</p>
<p>2. &#8220;even though he feels hard done by with 34% less in allowances&#8221;.</p>
<p>For the record &#8211; I do not feel remotely hard done by with my allowance. I think it more than enough for the role of a councillor without additional duties. In fact I was the only councillor who spoke out against massive rises in councillor salaries (39% for some compared with 2.9% for admin staff at the council) a couple of years ago. I gave the difference between my salary rise and that of the rise given to staff to Salford Women&#8217;s Aid.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/507514_merry_christmas_for_council_leader_john_whos_just_been_given_a_141_pay_rise" rel="nofollow">http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/507514_merry_christmas_for_council_leader_john_whos_just_been_given_a_141_pay_rise</a></p>
<p>3. I know nothing of the Bristol Lib Dems &#8211; I don&#8217;t spend my time investigating the practices of every council in Britain. Additionally, I know you hate John Leech and his colleagues (that&#8217;s hate rather than oppose), but assertion is not the same as evidence and I take any of the bile you spout about him with a mountain of salt.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22061</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22061</guid>
		<description>This is very interesting Steve. 

Four points:

1. Presumably the ESM&#039;s are like deputy chairs in other authorities?

2. You know that the basic in Manchester is almost at ESM level?

3. You do not say anything about the big INCREASE Lib DFems brought in in Bristol on accession, or anything about the equivalents in the atrociously managed (it&#039;s official) Lib Dem Liverpool. Any reason for that?

4. And you say nothing about the Hospital Hoaxer Cllr John Leech MP who is trousering his £60,000 from HoP, £22,000 John Lewis List, £10,000 Communications - which he is using for hybrid political leaflets, PLUS payments to Lib Dem activists, PLUS his councillor wages of £15,000+.

Leech promised to donate these - after tax presumably - to local Lib Dem constituency funds. Yet of c £45,000 only £3,500 has darkened the door of the Electoral Commission register.

In fact there is a great mystery with Manchester Lib Dem funds in that they appear to have a campaign worker and fairly deep pockets in general but scarcely any donations in are recorded.

I applaud your intention of giving transparency. Perhaps you would try for fairness as well and shine the light on Lib Dem authorities showing how things should be done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very interesting Steve. </p>
<p>Four points:</p>
<p>1. Presumably the ESM&#8217;s are like deputy chairs in other authorities?</p>
<p>2. You know that the basic in Manchester is almost at ESM level?</p>
<p>3. You do not say anything about the big INCREASE Lib DFems brought in in Bristol on accession, or anything about the equivalents in the atrociously managed (it&#8217;s official) Lib Dem Liverpool. Any reason for that?</p>
<p>4. And you say nothing about the Hospital Hoaxer Cllr John Leech MP who is trousering his £60,000 from HoP, £22,000 John Lewis List, £10,000 Communications &#8211; which he is using for hybrid political leaflets, PLUS payments to Lib Dem activists, PLUS his councillor wages of £15,000+.</p>
<p>Leech promised to donate these &#8211; after tax presumably &#8211; to local Lib Dem constituency funds. Yet of c £45,000 only £3,500 has darkened the door of the Electoral Commission register.</p>
<p>In fact there is a great mystery with Manchester Lib Dem funds in that they appear to have a campaign worker and fairly deep pockets in general but scarcely any donations in are recorded.</p>
<p>I applaud your intention of giving transparency. Perhaps you would try for fairness as well and shine the light on Lib Dem authorities showing how things should be done?</p>
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		<title>By: Big Davie</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22048</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Davie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22048</guid>
		<description>....tumbleweed drifts by ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;.tumbleweed drifts by &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Davie</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22044</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Davie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22044</guid>
		<description>Whilst you&#039;re here John, could you just give me an outline of what those in  Executive Support positions actually do?  I&#039;ve already asked one of my local representatives, but he didn&#039;t seem to know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whilst you&#8217;re here John, could you just give me an outline of what those in  Executive Support positions actually do?  I&#8217;ve already asked one of my local representatives, but he didn&#8217;t seem to know!</p>
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		<title>By: John Merry</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22040</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22040</guid>
		<description>The figure is too high for me as I do not get paid anything for my work on the lsc . I understand your concerns about quangos but those I sit on have tories and lib dems as well. I am appointed in a personal capacity and where I to give them up Salfords influence would be not be as strong. The actual figure is roughly the previous figure you gave with the lsc taken away and the lga added in. I hope you feel I am being transparent enough!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The figure is too high for me as I do not get paid anything for my work on the lsc . I understand your concerns about quangos but those I sit on have tories and lib dems as well. I am appointed in a personal capacity and where I to give them up Salfords influence would be not be as strong. The actual figure is roughly the previous figure you gave with the lsc taken away and the lga added in. I hope you feel I am being transparent enough!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22039</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22039</guid>
		<description>Thanks for clearing that up John - I&#039;ll amend appropriately asap. I don&#039;t think that the post reads as if I was implying impropriety - merely legitimate concern. Part of the point of it is though, that working through the sprawl of interests, appointments, directorships and memberships on quangos etc. is not easy without privileged access and effort. I personally think there are far too many quangos and that there is a lack of transparency in what politicians of all stripes across the country are involved and what they get paid for (and influence over).

You&#039;ll also have to accept that my experience on the council has not given me an automatic expectation that if I ask for information I&#039;ll receive it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for clearing that up John &#8211; I&#8217;ll amend appropriately asap. I don&#8217;t think that the post reads as if I was implying impropriety &#8211; merely legitimate concern. Part of the point of it is though, that working through the sprawl of interests, appointments, directorships and memberships on quangos etc. is not easy without privileged access and effort. I personally think there are far too many quangos and that there is a lack of transparency in what politicians of all stripes across the country are involved and what they get paid for (and influence over).</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll also have to accept that my experience on the council has not given me an automatic expectation that if I ask for information I&#8217;ll receive it.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merry</title>
		<link>http://www.stevecooke.org/2008/03/all-aboard-the-gravy-train/comment-page-1/#comment-22038</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.stevecooke.org/?p=258#comment-22038</guid>
		<description>I am concerned that you have stated I am on two property development companies. the only ones I can think of is chapel wharf and the broughton company in both cases I am the council represntive. in regard  to all the companies you have queried I receive no remuneration. Nor do I receive any remuneration as now an adviser to the lsc. I served two full terms on the body for which I was remunerated and they asked to stay on in a unpaid capacity afterwards. In rhe intrests of transparency I ought to draw attention to the fact that I have been appointed the Labour lead at the Lga on children and young people
My question to you is when a simple phone call to me could have answered your questions why you chose not to ask me ? Surely its not the case you wanted to imply something improper wuthout being bothered by the truth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am concerned that you have stated I am on two property development companies. the only ones I can think of is chapel wharf and the broughton company in both cases I am the council represntive. in regard  to all the companies you have queried I receive no remuneration. Nor do I receive any remuneration as now an adviser to the lsc. I served two full terms on the body for which I was remunerated and they asked to stay on in a unpaid capacity afterwards. In rhe intrests of transparency I ought to draw attention to the fact that I have been appointed the Labour lead at the Lga on children and young people<br />
My question to you is when a simple phone call to me could have answered your questions why you chose not to ask me ? Surely its not the case you wanted to imply something improper wuthout being bothered by the truth?</p>
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